[clug] Stallman visit

Ooooh - my first posting for the year...
Richard Stallman is visiting Canberra, specifically ANU and NICTA,
in early October, including running an emacs workshop and giving
a public lecture. Looks like he may be here from 5th - 7th or 8th.
Question is, do we (CLUG) want to do anything GNU/Linux'y with
him whilst he is here? The organisers are asking and want to know
soonish so they can work out how long he might stay for.
Anyone got any ideas? He specifically does not want to repeat the
emacs workshop, which will most likely be held during the day on
the 5th October.
Cheers,
Bob Edwards.
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Robert Edwards wrote:
> Ooooh - my first posting for the year...
>
> Richard Stallman is visiting Canberra, specifically ANU and NICTA,
> in early October, including running an emacs workshop and giving
> a public lecture. Looks like he may be here from 5th - 7th or 8th.
>
> Question is, do we (CLUG) want to do anything GNU/Linux'y with
> him whilst he is here? The organisers are asking and want to know
> soonish so they can work out how long he might stay for.
Hi Bob
I would definitely support something GNU/Linux'y. His last two visits
were informative and, as always, sparked passionate discussions. I have
also been to one of his GNU Emacs workshops in the past and recommend it
to everyone.
>
> Anyone got any ideas? He specifically does not want to repeat the
> emacs workshop, which will most likely be held during the day on
> the 5th October.
>
Hmm.
How about a Q&A evening, with pre-submitted questions having priority?
Questions might range from "history of the GNU project", "GCC design",
"GNU Emacs and sainthood" to "successful Free Software activism" and
"the Aus govt still wants to run the Internet".
Alternatively, a tute/talk on GNU make.
Regards
Anthony David
> Cheers,
>
> Bob Edwards.
>
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On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 12:08, Anthony David wrote:
> Alternatively, a tute/talk on GNU make
+1
(or of course vi)
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Robert Edwards wrote:
> Ooooh - my first posting for the year...
>
> Richard Stallman is visiting Canberra, specifically ANU and NICTA,
> in early October, including running an emacs workshop and giving
> a public lecture. Looks like he may be here from 5th - 7th or 8th.
>
> Question is, do we (CLUG) want to do anything GNU/Linux'y with
> him whilst he is here? The organisers are asking and want to know
> soonish so they can work out how long he might stay for.
I think it needs to be something specific. A general talk runs the risk
of duplicating or splintering the public lecture and I suspect many of
us will go to that as well.
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Well, at least expose him to the CLUG dial up Dominos open sauce pizza
service...
jim
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Robert Edwards wrote:
> Ooooh - my first posting for the year...
>
> Richard Stallman is visiting Canberra, specifically ANU and NICTA,
> in early October, including running an emacs workshop and giving
> a public lecture. Looks like he may be here from 5th - 7th or 8th.
>
> Question is, do we (CLUG) want to do anything GNU/Linux'y with
> him whilst he is here? The organisers are asking and want to know
> soonish so they can work out how long he might stay for.
>
> Anyone got any ideas? He specifically does not want to repeat the
> emacs workshop, which will most likely be held during the day on
> the 5th October.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bob Edwards.
>
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> https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
>
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On 17 March 2010 13:19, Jim Croft wrote:
> Well, at least expose him to the CLUG dial up Dominos open sauce pizza
> service...
And scare him off from coming here ever again?
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On 17 March 2010 13:22, Ivan Miljenovic wrote:
> On 17 March 2010 13:19, Jim Croft wrote:
> > Well, at least expose him to the CLUG dial up Dominos open sauce pizza
> > service...
>
> And scare him off from coming here ever again?
>
>
Richard Stallman (from meeting him in Melbourne a few years ago) is a very
interesting, but abrupt person. He has mentioned that he has to be like that
in someways to champion the Free Software Movement (and don't mention Open
Source in front of him). He holds fast to his beliefs - little things like
him preferring Pepsi and not Coca-Cola, to big things like how all code
should be Free.
What ever happens, he is very entertaining, educational, and inspiring. I
hope you are all open to his personality.
And to use one of his jokes - Don't mention vi - as vi-vi-vi is the editor
of the beast.
...Ric
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The direction and design of GCC and build systems (make & autotools) would
be of interest. In particular recent and projected language assimilations (I
heard mention of Go for 4.5, etc.), opinions on C++1x, C1x etc. Also I'd
love to hear his opinion (no doubt far more fiery than my own) on Internet
censorship, software patents and the future of binary vs. interpreted
languages.
Has RMS "visited" CLUG previously?
Matt Joiner.
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Ric de France wrote:
> On 17 March 2010 13:22, Ivan Miljenovic wrote:
>
> > On 17 March 2010 13:19, Jim Croft wrote:
> > > Well, at least expose him to the CLUG dial up Dominos open sauce pizza
> > > service...
> >
> > And scare him off from coming here ever again?
> >
> >
> Richard Stallman (from meeting him in Melbourne a few years ago) is a very
> interesting, but abrupt person. He has mentioned that he has to be like
> that
> in someways to champion the Free Software Movement (and don't mention Open
> Source in front of him). He holds fast to his beliefs - little things like
> him preferring Pepsi and not Coca-Cola, to big things like how all code
> should be Free.
>
> What ever happens, he is very entertaining, educational, and inspiring. I
> hope you are all open to his personality.
>
> And to use one of his jokes - Don't mention vi - as vi-vi-vi is the editor
> of the beast.
>
> ...Ric
> --
> Ric de France
> Ph: +61412945554 (international) or 0412945554 (Australia)
> ==> Do you, uh... Gentoo? Gentoooo-hooo!! ==> http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml --
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Matt Joiner wrote:
> The direction and design of GCC and build systems (make & autotools) would
> be of interest. In particular recent and projected language assimilations (I
> heard mention of Go for 4.5, etc.), opinions on C++1x, C1x etc. Also I'd
> love to hear his opinion (no doubt far more fiery than my own) on Internet
> censorship, software patents and the future of binary vs. interpreted
> languages.
>
> Has RMS "visited" CLUG previously?
I'm pretty sure not. He has visited Canberra at least twice previously
(that I have attended), giving public lectures at ADFA way back in the
late 90's and at the Coombs Theatre at ANU more recently.
I'll pass on these specific topic requests through the channels as well.
Cheers,
Bob Edwards.
>
> Matt Joiner.
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Ric de France wrote:
>
>> On 17 March 2010 13:22, Ivan Miljenovic wrote:
>>
>>> On 17 March 2010 13:19, Jim Croft wrote:
>>>> Well, at least expose him to the CLUG dial up Dominos open sauce pizza
>>>> service...
>>> And scare him off from coming here ever again?
>>>
>>>
>> Richard Stallman (from meeting him in Melbourne a few years ago) is a very
>> interesting, but abrupt person. He has mentioned that he has to be like
>> that
>> in someways to champion the Free Software Movement (and don't mention Open
>> Source in front of him). He holds fast to his beliefs - little things like
>> him preferring Pepsi and not Coca-Cola, to big things like how all code
>> should be Free.
>>
>> What ever happens, he is very entertaining, educational, and inspiring. I
>> hope you are all open to his personality.
>>
>> And to use one of his jokes - Don't mention vi - as vi-vi-vi is the editor
>> of the beast.
>>
>> ...Ric
>> --
>> Ric de France
>> Ph: +61412945554 (international) or 0412945554 (Australia)
>> ==> Do you, uh... Gentoo? Gentoooo-hooo!! > ==> http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml > --
>> linux mailing list
>> linux@lists.samba.org
>> https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
>>
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Matt Joiner wrote:
> The direction and design of GCC and build systems (make & autotools) would
> be of interest. In particular recent and projected language assimilations (I
> heard mention of Go for 4.5, etc.), opinions on C++1x, C1x etc. Also I'd
> love to hear his opinion (no doubt far more fiery than my own) on Internet
> censorship, software patents and the future of binary vs. interpreted
> languages.
>
> Has RMS "visited" CLUG previously?
>
Once in 2000 when he was here after AUUG in Melbourne. There was some
discussion on the list after he said we should change our name to
Canberra GNU/Linux User Group :-)
He also came out in 2003?, invited by the Australian Computer Society,
and gave an evening talk at DCS as well.
> Matt Joiner.
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Ric de France wrote:
>
>
>> On 17 March 2010 13:22, Ivan Miljenovic wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 17 March 2010 13:19, Jim Croft wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, at least expose him to the CLUG dial up Dominos open sauce pizza
>>>> service...
>>>>
>>> And scare him off from coming here ever again?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Richard Stallman (from meeting him in Melbourne a few years ago) is a very
>> interesting, but abrupt person. He has mentioned that he has to be like
>> that
>> in someways to champion the Free Software Movement (and don't mention Open
>> Source in front of him). He holds fast to his beliefs - little things like
>> him preferring Pepsi and not Coca-Cola, to big things like how all code
>> should be Free.
>>
>> What ever happens, he is very entertaining, educational, and inspiring. I
>> hope you are all open to his personality.
>>
>> And to use one of his jokes - Don't mention vi - as vi-vi-vi is the editor
>> of the beast.
>>
>> ...Ric
>> --
>> Ric de France
>> Ph: +61412945554 (international) or 0412945554 (Australia)
>> ==> Do you, uh... Gentoo? Gentoooo-hooo!! > ==> http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml > --
>> linux mailing list
>> linux@lists.samba.org
>> https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/linux
>>
>>
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On 18 March 2010 09:16, Anthony David wrote:
> Matt Joiner wrote:
>
>> The direction and design of GCC and build systems (make & autotools) would
>> be of interest. In particular recent and projected language assimilations
>> (I
>> heard mention of Go for 4.5, etc.), opinions on C++1x, C1x etc. Also I'd
>> love to hear his opinion (no doubt far more fiery than my own) on Internet
>> censorship, software patents and the future of binary vs. interpreted
>> languages.
>>
>> Has RMS "visited" CLUG previously?
>>
>>
> Once in 2000 when he was here after AUUG in Melbourne. There was some
> discussion on the list after he said we should change our name to Canberra
> GNU/Linux User Group :-)
>
Yeah, but CG/LUG doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
L
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> Yeah, but CG/LUG doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
>
> L
If we change to "GLUG" I think we should have meetings at the Wig and Pen.
g
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On 18 March 2010 09:31, George Bray wrote:
> > Yeah, but CG/LUG doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
> >
> > L
>
> If we change to "GLUG" I think we should have meetings at the Wig and Pen.
>
Count me in!
L
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On 17 March 2010 10:53, Robert Edwards wrote:
> Anyone got any ideas? He specifically does not want to repeat the
> emacs workshop, which will most likely be held during the day on
> the 5th October.
Here's one I just thought of: what's his take on the growing
deletionist, etc. trend on wikipedia and how it pertains to knowledge
about F/LOSS projects?
For more information:
http://ubuntard.com/2010/03/wikipedia-notability-and-open-source-software/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability/RFC:Notability_of_free_open_source_software
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Ivan Miljenovic wrote:
> Here's one I just thought of: what's his take on the growing
> deletionist, etc. trend on wikipedia and how it pertains to knowledge
> about F/LOSS projects?
>
you mentioned the F word. To Re-iterate. Never mention the F word in
RMS's presence.
Seriously.
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On 18/03/2010, at 10:23 , Steve Walsh wrote:
> you mentioned the F word. To Re-iterate. Never mention the F word in RMS's presence.
I'm confused now, isn't it the "Open" word that we're not supposed to mention?
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On 18 March 2010 10:23, Steve Walsh wrote:
> Ivan Miljenovic wrote:
>
>> Here's one I just thought of: what's his take on the growing
>> deletionist, etc. trend on wikipedia and how it pertains to knowledge
>> about F/LOSS projects?
>>
>>
> you mentioned the F word. To Re-iterate. Never mention the F word in RMS's
> presence.
>
> Seriously.
>
Why?
L
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differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute.
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On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Steve Walsh wrote:
> you mentioned the F word. To Re-iterate. Never mention the F word in RMS's
> presence.
>
> Seriously.
>
Wrong way around, Walshy.
-c
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Alex Satrapa wrote:
> On 18/03/2010, at 10:23 , Steve Walsh wrote:
>
>
>> you mentioned the F word. To Re-iterate. Never mention the F word in RMS's presence.
>>
>
> I'm confused now, isn't it the "Open" word that we're not supposed to mention?
>
>
F/LOSS is pulling the Open Source into the Free Software world, which
RMS has strong philosophical views about. His diatribe at
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html gives
you an idea on the matter.
Talk about Free Software or GNU all you like, but don't bundle OSS with
Free Software in teh same sentence.
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Chris Smart wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Steve Walsh wrote:
>
>> you mentioned the F word. To Re-iterate. Never mention the F word in RMS's
>> presence.
>>
>> Seriously.
>>
>>
>
> Wrong way around, Walshy.
>
> -c
>
Er. No.
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Chris Smart wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Steve Walsh wrote:
>
>> you mentioned the F word. To Re-iterate. Never mention the F word in RMS's
>> presence.
>>
>> Seriously.
>>
>>
>
> Wrong way around, Walshy.
>
> -c
>
dammit, hit send and not enter.
By the F word, I mean F/LOSS, not Free.
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Just a thought, Bob just suggested that maybe RMS will not want to visit
CLUG asw we do not include Gnu in the name of the user group.
Maybe this will need us to revisit the discussion from one of his previous
visits to Canberra. How do we include GNU in the name of the user group.
The best suggestion was of course
Canberra Hackers Using Gnu And Linux User Group
See You
Steve

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On 18/03/2010, at 10:52 , Steven Hanley wrote:
> Just a thought, Bob just suggested that maybe RMS will not want to visit
> CLUG asw we do not include Gnu in the name of the user group.
Would you use an operating system called "Linux/GNU/Apache/ISC/=85"? Just =
typing out the name of the OS shouldn't be the major use of your time when =
using a particular OS.
How much GNU software is used when running LAMP? It's hardly the dominant p=
roduct in the stack.
Needless self-aggrandisment is a turnoff.
Alex
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On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Steven Hanley wrote:
> Just a thought, Bob just suggested that maybe RMS will not want to visit
> CLUG asw we do not include Gnu in the name of the user group.
>
Are we actually about freedom of software, or about the Linux kernel itself?
If we swapped out GNU with BSD userland, but kept the Linux kernel,
would CLUG lose its meaning?
If we swapped out Linux for Hurd, would CLUG lose its meaning?
Are we pushing RMS's agenda, or do we just like the idea of "open
source software," specifically Linux. We can like Free software
without needing to push or be a part of his agenda.
Quite frankly I think we're free to call our group whatever the hell we want to.
-c
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On 18 March 2010 11:09, Chris Smart wrote:
> Quite frankly I think we're free to call our group whatever the hell we want to.
And if he doesn't like it, we can always say we're keeping it for
historic reasons (people know it, etc.).
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On 18 March 2010 11:11, Ivan Miljenovic wrote:
> On 18 March 2010 11:09, Chris Smart wrote:
> > Quite frankly I think we're free to call our group whatever the hell we
> want to.
>
> And if he doesn't like it, we can always say we're keeping it for
> historic reasons (people know it, etc.).
>
>
If he doesn't like it, he can go take a long walk off a short pier.
Never had much of a soft spot for the man though, myself.
L
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I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is; I only
know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that
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On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Ivan Miljenovic
wrote:
> And if he doesn't like it, we can always say we're keeping it for
> historic reasons (people know it, etc.).
Wait, I've got it...
When RMS comes to town, we'll change it to "Canberra GNU/Linux User
Group" so as not to offend.
When Linus comes to town, we'll get rid of the "Free" perspective and
revert to "Canberra Linux User Group".
Let me quote Linus from one of my own articles:
"There are "extremists" in the free software world, but that's one
major reason why I don't call what I do "free software" any more. I
don't want to be associated with the people for whom it's about
exclusion and hatred."
-c
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On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Steven Hanley wrote:
> The best suggestion was of course
>
> Canberra Hackers Using Gnu And Linux User Group
CHUGALUG, nice one Steve.. ;-)
-c
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On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 11:24:32AM +1100, Chris Smart wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Steven Hanley wrote:
> > The best suggestion was of course
> >
> > Canberra Hackers Using Gnu And Linux User Group
>
> CHUGALUG, nice one Steve.. ;-)
>
Heh
This thread got large fast.
This is exactly what happened last time. RMS certainly gets people
talking.
I am happy to keep CLUG and, IIRC, that was the consensus last time.
Anthony
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and some people do... :)
jim
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 11:09 AM, Chris Smart wrote:
> Quite frankly I think we're free to call our group whatever the hell we want to.
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self-aggrandisement*
At least with acronyms we only have to remember the first letter in each
word. :)
I really don't see how the name or term used matters, as long as everyone
understands the intention. If the F word is price to have a visit from RMS,
so be it!
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Alex Satrapa wrote:
> On 18/03/2010, at 10:52 , Steven Hanley wrote:
>
> > Just a thought, Bob just suggested that maybe RMS will not want to visit
> > CLUG asw we do not include Gnu in the name of the user group.
>
> Would you use an operating system called "Linux/GNU/Apache/ISC/=85"? Just
> typing out the name of the OS shouldn't be the major use of your time when
> using a particular OS.
>
> How much GNU software is used when running LAMP? It's hardly the dominant
> product in the stack.
>
> Needless self-aggrandisment is a turnoff.
>
> Alex
>
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On 18 March 2010 10:56, Alex Satrapa wrote:
> On 18/03/2010, at 10:52 , Steven Hanley wrote:
>> Just a thought, Bob just suggested that maybe RMS will not want to visit
>> CLUG asw we do not include Gnu in the name of the user group.
>
> Would you use an operating system called "Linux/GNU/Apache/ISC/=85"? =A0J=
ust typing out the name of the OS shouldn't be the major use of your time w=
hen using a particular OS.
Indeed. There's much to admire in what RMS has done in the software
world, and much to be grateful to him for. But his perverse demand
that everybody prepend "GNU/" to things is ... well, lame.
Part of the reason GNU enjoys such widespread use is the success of
Linux. Part of the success of Linux is due to its name. It's short,
it's catchy, it's easy to pronounce. By contrast, "GNU/Linux" would
have Hindenburged right into the ground.
Cheers,
BJ
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Brendan Jurd wrote:
> On 18 March 2010 10:56, Alex Satrapa wrote:
> =
>> On 18/03/2010, at 10:52 , Steven Hanley wrote:
>> =
>>> Just a thought, Bob just suggested that maybe RMS will not want to visit
>>> CLUG asw we do not include Gnu in the name of the user group.
>>> =
>> Would you use an operating system called "Linux/GNU/Apache/ISC/=85"? Ju=
st typing out the name of the OS shouldn't be the major use of your time wh=
en using a particular OS.
>> =
>
> Indeed. There's much to admire in what RMS has done in the software
> world, and much to be grateful to him for. But his perverse demand
> that everybody prepend "GNU/" to things is ... well, lame.
>
> Part of the reason GNU enjoys such widespread use is the success of
> Linux. Part of the success of Linux is due to its name. It's short,
> it's catchy, it's easy to pronounce. By contrast, "GNU/Linux" would
> have Hindenburged right into the ground.
>
> =
Counterpoint examples:
Ubuntu
$ uname -a
Linux carbonate 2.6.31-020631-generic #020631 SMP Thu Sep 10 21:43:40 =
UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
Debian
$cat /etc/motd
Linux ajd.adavid.com.au 2.6.18-6-ixp4xx #1 Sun Feb 21 09:05:05 UTC 2010 =
armv5tel
The programs included with the Debian GNU/Linux system are free software;
the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the
individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright.
Debian GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent
permitted by applicable law.
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Brendan Jurd wrote:
> On 18 March 2010 10:56, Alex Satrapa wrote:
>> On 18/03/2010, at 10:52 , Steven Hanley wrote:
>>> Just a thought, Bob just suggested that maybe RMS will not want to visit
>>> CLUG asw we do not include Gnu in the name of the user group.
>> Would you use an operating system called "Linux/GNU/Apache/ISC/=85"? Ju=
st typing out the name of the OS shouldn't be the major use of your time wh=
en using a particular OS.
> =
> Indeed. There's much to admire in what RMS has done in the software
> world, and much to be grateful to him for. But his perverse demand
> that everybody prepend "GNU/" to things is ... well, lame.
> =
> Part of the reason GNU enjoys such widespread use is the success of
> Linux. Part of the success of Linux is due to its name. It's short,
> it's catchy, it's easy to pronounce. By contrast, "GNU/Linux" would
> have Hindenburged right into the ground.
Do you have any evidence to support that statement? I find it pretty =
hard to believe, especially given that Linux is most successful in =
fields where the users are unaware of the software they are using =
(servers, embedded systems, etc).
Don't get me wrong -- I'm pretty sure RMS is insane, but the name issue =
doesn't seem like the right place to point to insanity.
Mikal
PS: Don't get the started on Eric Raymond.
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Chris Smart wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Steven Hanley wrote:
>> The best suggestion was of course
>>
>> Canberra Hackers Using Gnu And Linux User Group
>
> CHUGALUG, nice one Steve.. ;-)
Start a group just for the RMS visit, and then put it through the
shredder afterwards. Its probably a good idea for hygiene reasons anyway.
How about the "GNU Liberation Front"?
Mikal
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Michael Still wrote:
> Brendan Jurd wrote:
>> On 18 March 2010 10:56, Alex Satrapa wrote:
>>> On 18/03/2010, at 10:52 , Steven Hanley wrote:
>>>> Just a thought, Bob just suggested that maybe RMS will not want to =
>>>> visit
>>>> CLUG asw we do not include Gnu in the name of the user group.
>>> Would you use an operating system called "Linux/GNU/Apache/ISC/=85"? =
>>> Just typing out the name of the OS shouldn't be the major use of =
>>> your time when using a particular OS.
>>
>> Indeed. There's much to admire in what RMS has done in the software
>> world, and much to be grateful to him for. But his perverse demand
>> that everybody prepend "GNU/" to things is ... well, lame.
>>
>> Part of the reason GNU enjoys such widespread use is the success of
>> Linux. Part of the success of Linux is due to its name. It's short,
>> it's catchy, it's easy to pronounce. By contrast, "GNU/Linux" would
>> have Hindenburged right into the ground.
>
> Do you have any evidence to support that statement? I find it pretty =
> hard to believe, especially given that Linux is most successful in =
> fields where the users are unaware of the software they are using =
> (servers, embedded systems, etc).
>
> Don't get me wrong -- I'm pretty sure RMS is insane, but the name =
> issue doesn't seem like the right place to point to insanity.
>
> Mikal
>
> PS: Don't get the started on Eric Raymond.
That might open some old sores.
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Michael Still wrote:
> Chris Smart wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Steven Hanley wrote:
>>> The best suggestion was of course
>>>
>>> Canberra Hackers Using Gnu And Linux User Group
>>
>> CHUGALUG, nice one Steve.. ;-)
>
> Start a group just for the RMS visit, and then put it through the
> shredder afterwards. Its probably a good idea for hygiene reasons anyway.
>
> How about the "GNU Liberation Front"?
>
> Mikal
How about AUUG? Worked before.
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On 19 March 2010 05:18, Anthony David wrote:
>
>> How about AUUG? Worked before.
"It says 'AAAAAUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGgggggghhhhhhhh ...'"
"'AAAAAUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGgggggghhhhhhhh ...'?"
"Yes, 'AAAAAUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGgggggghhhhhhhh ...'"
"Why would it say 'AAAAAUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGgggggghhhhhhhh ...'?"
"I think he died while he was writing it."
L
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I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is; I only
know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that
differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute.
- Rebecca West
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On 19 March 2010 05:10, Michael Still wrote:
> Brendan Jurd wrote:
>> Part of the reason GNU enjoys such widespread use is the success of
>> Linux. =A0Part of the success of Linux is due to its name. =A0It's short,
>> it's catchy, it's easy to pronounce. =A0By contrast, "GNU/Linux" would
>> have Hindenburged right into the ground.
>
> Do you have any evidence to support that statement? I find it pretty hard=
to
> believe, especially given that Linux is most successful in fields where t=
he
> users are unaware of the software they are using (servers, embedded syste=
ms,
> etc).
Well since the only way to get solid evidence about my statement would
be to travel back in time and convince Linus that he needs to name his
new operating system GNU/Linux and rigorously enforce that convention
and see how successful it is ... no, I don't have any evidence.
Maybe it could have worked out, but personally, I just can't imagine
the same level of enthusiasm for "guh-noo-slash-lin-ux". Names
matter.
What I said was intended as opinion/speculation not demonstrable fact,
apologies if I came off the wrong way.
Cheers,
BJ
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On 19 March 2010 02:09, Brendan Jurd wrote:
> On 18 March 2010 10:56, Alex Satrapa wrote:
> > On 18/03/2010, at 10:52 , Steven Hanley wrote:
> >> Just a thought, Bob just suggested that maybe RMS will not want to vis=
it
> >> CLUG asw we do not include Gnu in the name of the user group.
> >
> > Would you use an operating system called "Linux/GNU/Apache/ISC/=85"? J=
ust
> typing out the name of the OS shouldn't be the major use of your time when
> using a particular OS.
>
> Indeed. There's much to admire in what RMS has done in the software
> world, and much to be grateful to him for. But his perverse demand
> that everybody prepend "GNU/" to things is ... well, lame.
>
He's still a pretty loathsome man. But yeah, point taken.
>
> Part of the reason GNU enjoys such widespread use is the success of
> Linux. Part of the success of Linux is due to its name. It's short,
> it's catchy, it's easy to pronounce. By contrast, "GNU/Linux" would
> have Hindenburged right into the ground.
>
"Easy to pronounce"? Um. Lih-nucks. Lie-nucks. Luh-nucks.
I agree that GNU owes much of its success to Linux. I'm not so sure that
Linux owes its success to its name, though.
I doubt very much that its 'short, catchy' name has prompted anyone to
install Linux, quite frankly. The most part it might have played would be to
make it a little more memorable, and therefore have built brand recognition
(to borrow a marketing term for want of a better one) to an extent. I don't
think the people that have gone on to be Linux evangelists, though, would
not have done so if it was called "An operating system that is based on Unix
with a bunch of GNU stuff to make it work better".
Would a rose by any other name ... ? ;)
L
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I do not want people to be agreeable, as it saves me the trouble of liking
them.
- Jane Austen
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