Per Dave Page's request of this morning, my CommitFest management
application now has a real hostname (see subject line). I have also
sent Dave an email with details of the install process and location of
files, per his request (let me know if there's somewhere else those
details should be posted).
Brendan Jurd has graciously migrated all of the data from the
CommitFest wiki page to the app by writing a script to parse the wiki
markup and inserting the resulting data directly into the database.
There are a few loose ends. The application stamps comments with the
community login of the person who left them, but the import stamped
them with names instead. This is actually of some significance, since
the app will allow you to edit your own comments but not those of
other people. We could probably fix this if someone can give us
access to (or a dump of) the realname to username mappings from the
community login DB. Also, we're currently missing the reviewer names
due to limitations of the import script; Brendan is fixing this.
Filling the DB with live data revealed a few warts. In particular,
the original ordering of patches was alpha by topic and then alpha by
name, which I thought would be OK, but upon seeing how it really
looked, I hated it. So the topic manager now lets you set a sort
order for commitfest topics, and the order is now numeric by topic
sortorder, then alpha by topic, then by ascending patch ID (so the
oldest patch comes up first within each topic section). Also, I
originally had the topics displayed as a table column, but that didn't
really work for me once I saw it either, so it's been reorganized to
do it the same way the wiki does.
We're still hacking on a few other details of the formatting and
interface, but you might want to cruise over and have a look. Please
however continue to make ALL CHANGES on the wiki, and not in the app.
Brendan is going to manually move changes over to the new system
incrementally until we get the kinks worked out. I think we're close,
but we're not quite there yet. As a reminder, if you'd like to review
or submit patches against the source, you can find it here:
http://git.postgresql.org/gitweb?p=pgcommitfest.git;a=summary
git://git.postgresql.org/git/pgcommitfest.git
...Robert
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Brendan Jurd on
2009-07-03T05:35:18+00:00
2009/7/3 Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>:
>=A0Also, we're currently missing the reviewer names
> due to limitations of the import script; Brendan is fixing this.
Update: The reviewer names have now been populated.
Cheers,
BJ
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Jaime Casanova on
2009-07-03T05:44:44+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Brendan Jurd<direvus@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/7/3 Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>:
>>=C2=A0Also, we're currently missing the reviewer names
>> due to limitations of the import script; Brendan is fixing this.
>
> Update: The reviewer names have now been populated.
>
looks good... now, how can i mark a patch as being reviewed? or i have
to told you in order to you mark it?
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Brendan Jurd on
2009-07-03T05:49:55+00:00
2009/7/3 Jaime Casanova <jcasanov@systemguards.com.ec>:
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Brendan Jurd<direvus@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2009/7/3 Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>:
>>>=A0Also, we're currently missing the reviewer names
>>> due to limitations of the import script; Brendan is fixing this.
>>
>> Update: The reviewer names have now been populated.
>>
>
> looks good... now, how can i mark a patch as being reviewed? or i have
> to told you in order to you mark it?
Until we have a solid consensus to switch to using the new app, please
continue to make your changes on the wiki. I'll replicate the changes
by hand as we go until switchover.
If you'd like to make your changes on the app yourself and save me the
trouble, please do! Just select the patch you're interested in, click
"edit patch" on the upper right and change the status and/or reviewer
fields as required.
Please let us know if you encounter any problems with withe app, or
have suggestions for improvement.
Cheers,
BJ
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Tom Lane on
2009-07-03T14:14:43+00:00
Brendan Jurd <direvus@gmail.com> writes:
> Please let us know if you encounter any problems with withe app, or
> have suggestions for improvement.
It looks like every patch and comment is timestamped ... but with
yesterday (the time of data import, I suppose). This is much worse
than useless. If you can't get the actual date, leave it off.
regards, tom lane
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Tom Lane on
2009-07-03T14:35:58+00:00
On "suggestions for improvement": I need to be able to bookmark the
commitfest summary list (whichever page is equivalent to the old wiki
page). The current URL seems to be
http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest-view?id=2
which is both opaque as can be and not looking like it's intended to
be stable over the long term. I can also imagine people wanting to
refer to particular patch entries in email, but those URLs are no
better. Could we pay some attention to using URLs that are stable
and self-explanatory?
regards, tom lane
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Tom Lane on
2009-07-03T14:41:17+00:00
I tried the "New Patch Comment" feature. It's absolutely horrid.
I get a page showing a "comment type" button, one line for Message-ID,
and one line for Content. No explanation of what those are, and no
visibility any more of the patch I'm trying to comment on. I have no
idea what I'm supposed to do here, and if I were trying to respond to
someone else's comment, it would be nice to be able to see that comment.
regards, tom lane
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-03T15:23:22+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> On "suggestions for improvement": I need to be able to bookmark the
> commitfest summary list (whichever page is equivalent to the old wiki
> page). =A0The current URL seems to be
> http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest-view?id=3D2
> which is both opaque as can be and not looking like it's intended to
> be stable over the long term. =A0I can also imagine people wanting to
> refer to particular patch entries in email, but those URLs are no
> better. =A0Could we pay some attention to using URLs that are stable
> and self-explanatory?
I'm not sure why you would think that it's not stable. It's not
stable in the sense that it won't always be the open CommitFest, but
it's certainly stable in the sense that it will always be the same
CommitFest that it is now. It's actually MORE stable than the wiki,
since the wiki doesn't permit you to change the name of the CommitFest
without also changing the URL.
I'm also not sure what you would think that it's not self-explanatory,
since it looks pretty self explanatory to me. You've asked to view a
commitfest. The id of that commitfest is 2. What more do you want to
know?
If you're advocating for the use of wiki-style names, where the URL
actually contains the name of the things that it points to, then you
have incompatible requirements, because things can, do, and will
continue to get renamed. If the URL is built around the name, then
the URL will change when the name changes. If you want it to be
stable, a non-natural key is your only option. And I frankly don't
see what's wrong with that. We regularly deal in message-IDs or other
links to the archives, which are certainly totally opaque.
Fortunately, they're links. You can click on them, and then you see
what they are.
...Robert
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-03T15:32:54+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> I tried the "New Patch Comment" feature. =A0It's absolutely horrid.
> I get a page showing a "comment type" button, one line for Message-ID,
> and one line for Content. =A0No explanation of what those are, and no
> visibility any more of the patch I'm trying to comment on. =A0I have no
> idea what I'm supposed to do here, and if I were trying to respond to
> someone else's comment, it would be nice to be able to see that comment.
The message-ID is the (optional) ID of a message you'd like to link
to. The comment is the text of your comment. If there's a legitimate
reason for confusion here, I have no idea what it is.
I agree that the comment box probably needs to be converted into a
text area rather than a single line. But I also think that comments
on the wiki should be kept short. If you have more than a few lines
of text, there's a good chance you should be sending an email to
-hackers and then linking to it. There are some projects that are
managed using a discussion forum or a bug tracker and as far as I know
you've always been opposed to that, as am I. So complaining that this
system doesn't work that way seems disingenuous. Also, if you think
this interface is inconvenient for leaving a comment, have you tried
doing it on the wiki lately?
Anyway, I'm sure there's room for improvement in this tool. I intend
to make improvements. I still think it's already better than the
wiki. Moving things to a different commitfest or a different section
of the same commitfest (like, particularly relevant to you, the
"committed" section) is takes me minutes on the wiki and seconds with
this app.
...Robert
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Heikki Linnakangas on
2009-07-03T15:47:43+00:00
Robert Haas wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>> On "suggestions for improvement": I need to be able to bookmark the
>> commitfest summary list (whichever page is equivalent to the old wiki
>> page). The current URL seems to be
>> http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest-view?id=2
>> which is both opaque as can be and not looking like it's intended to
>> be stable over the long term. I can also imagine people wanting to
>> refer to particular patch entries in email, but those URLs are no
>> better. Could we pay some attention to using URLs that are stable
>> and self-explanatory?
>
> I'm not sure why you would think that it's not stable. It's not
> stable in the sense that it won't always be the open CommitFest, but
> it's certainly stable in the sense that it will always be the same
> CommitFest that it is now. It's actually MORE stable than the wiki,
> since the wiki doesn't permit you to change the name of the CommitFest
> without also changing the URL.
We have redirects to the previous, open, and in-progress commitfests in
the wiki (see http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/CommitFest). Those
redirects are bookmarkable.
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Tom Lane on
2009-07-03T15:51:16+00:00
Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> writes:
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>> The current URL seems to be
>> http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest-view?id=2
>> which is both opaque as can be and not looking like it's intended to
>> be stable over the long term.
> I'm not sure why you would think that it's not stable.
Because it's exposing three or four details of your implementation,
which you might wish to change later.
> I'm also not sure what you would think that it's not self-explanatory,
> since it looks pretty self explanatory to me.
It's impossible to know that this is commitfest 2009-07.
regards, tom lane
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Tom Lane on
2009-07-03T16:01:30+00:00
Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> writes:
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>> I tried the "New Patch Comment" feature.
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-03T16:16:27+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Heikki
Linnakangas<heikki.linnakangas@enterprisedb.com> wrote:
> Robert Haas wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>>> On "suggestions for improvement": I need to be able to bookmark the
>>> commitfest summary list (whichever page is equivalent to the old wiki
>>> page). =A0The current URL seems to be
>>> http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest-view?id=3D2
>>> which is both opaque as can be and not looking like it's intended to
>>> be stable over the long term. =A0I can also imagine people wanting to
>>> refer to particular patch entries in email, but those URLs are no
>>> better. =A0Could we pay some attention to using URLs that are stable
>>> and self-explanatory?
>>
>> I'm not sure why you would think that it's not stable. =A0It's not
>> stable in the sense that it won't always be the open CommitFest, but
>> it's certainly stable in the sense that it will always be the same
>> CommitFest that it is now. =A0It's actually MORE stable than the wiki,
>> since the wiki doesn't permit you to change the name of the CommitFest
>> without also changing the URL.
>
> We have redirects to the previous, open, and in-progress commitfests in
> the wiki (see http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/CommitFest). Those
> redirects are bookmarkable.
We can do the same thing here. It's a SMOP.
...Robert
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Treat on
2009-07-03T18:07:26+00:00
On Friday 03 July 2009 11:50:29 Tom Lane wrote:
> Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> >> The current URL seems to be
> >> http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest-view?id=2
> >> which is both opaque as can be and not looking like it's intended to
> >> be stable over the long term.
> >
> > I'm not sure why you would think that it's not stable.
>
> Because it's exposing three or four details of your implementation,
> which you might wish to change later.
>
> > I'm also not sure what you would think that it's not self-explanatory,
> > since it looks pretty self explanatory to me.
>
> It's impossible to know that this is commitfest 2009-07.
>
commitfest.postgresql.org/2009/07 ?
That, or any similar scheme, seems easily doable with a little apache rewrite
magic and some programming. See my blog urls for one such example.
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Joshua D. Drake on
2009-07-03T18:12:15+00:00
On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 14:06 -0400, Robert Treat wrote:
> On Friday 03 July 2009 11:50:29 Tom Lane wrote:
> > Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> writes:
> > > On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> > >> The current URL seems to be
> > >> http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest-view?id=2
> > >> which is both opaque as can be and not looking like it's intended to
> > >> be stable over the long term.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure why you would think that it's not stable.
> >
> > Because it's exposing three or four details of your implementation,
> > which you might wish to change later.
> >
> > > I'm also not sure what you would think that it's not self-explanatory,
> > > since it looks pretty self explanatory to me.
> >
> > It's impossible to know that this is commitfest 2009-07.
> >
>
> commitfest.postgresql.org/2009/07 ?
>
> That, or any similar scheme, seems easily doable with a little apache rewrite
> magic and some programming. See my blog urls for one such example.
O.k. I am probably blowing something out of the water here but do we
need yet another domain?
wiki.postgresql.org/commitfest/2009/07 (or www)
Joshua D. Drake
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-03T18:44:47+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>>> The current URL seems to be
>>> http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest-view?id=2
>>> which is both opaque as can be and not looking like it's intended to
>>> be stable over the long term.
>
>> I'm not sure why you would think that it's not stable.
>
> Because it's exposing three or four details of your implementation,
> which you might wish to change later.
>
>> I'm also not sure what you would think that it's not self-explanatory,
>> since it looks pretty self explanatory to me.
>
> It's impossible to know that this is commitfest 2009-07.
Backing up for a moment to ten thousand feet here, I posted a link to
this web app on May 26th. I received several comments on it, all of
them positive, including some constructive feedback from you which I
took to heart. It is now July 1st, and I am trying very hard to get
ready for the next CommitFest, which I have agreed to manage. So I
need to determine whether there is some finite number of changes of
manageable size that I can make to get this to a state where we can
use it, or whether I should give up hope now and go back to the wiki.
The latter outcome would be disappointing to me, but that's where
we're going to end up if we can't actually boil this down to a
specific list of changes to be made.
I accept the need for and am willing to make the following changes:
- Changing the patch comment field from type text to type textarea and
integrating it into the patch view page to provide context.
- Adding a note to the effect that the message ID is optional.
- Adding stable links with mnemonic names for the open, in progress,
and most recently closed commitfests.
With respect to the issue of the page URLs, I'm very unconvinced of
the value of making a change. First of all, one of your arguments is
that I might want to change them later. I can promise you that I
won't want to do any such thing, or at the VERY least that the old
URLs will always be supported. There would be a sort of perverse
irony to me changing the application to use a different kind of key
for the reason that Tom Lane is afraid that some day I might want to
use a different kind of key.
Secondly, if we are going to make a change, it would be nice to know
what the use case is for the change and to have a set of requirements
that are not mutually contradictory. It is not possible to both
assign the URLs to the pages based on the names of the objects to
which the refer (which are changeable) and to guarantee that the URLs
will never change. So you can either have URL stability or you can
have wiki-style names, but you can't have both, unless perhaps you
include both the ID and the name in the link but make the name just
decoration. I am frankly at a loss to why this is a big deal: if you
bookmark the page, your browser will record the page title; if you use
firefox, you can also find by page title in the address bar. And
we've never had pages for individual patches before anyway, so why
should it now be critical how those links are formatted? But if it is
critical then please describe exactly how you think it should work.
...Robert
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-03T18:45:35+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Joshua D. Drake<jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
> O.k. I am probably blowing something out of the water here but do we
> need yet another domain?
Because it's installed on a different VM and I don't want to move it
just to make the URL look different?
...Robert
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Andrew Chernow on
2009-07-03T19:01:12+00:00
Robert Treat wrote:
> On Friday 03 July 2009 11:50:29 Tom Lane wrote:
>> Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>>>> The current URL seems to be
>>>> http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest-view?id=2
>>>> which is both opaque as can be and not looking like it's intended to
>>>> be stable over the long term.
>>> I'm not sure why you would think that it's not stable.
>> Because it's exposing three or four details of your implementation,
>> which you might wish to change later.
>>
>>> I'm also not sure what you would think that it's not self-explanatory,
>>> since it looks pretty self explanatory to me.
>> It's impossible to know that this is commitfest 2009-07.
>>
>
> commitfest.postgresql.org/2009/07 ?
>
> That, or any similar scheme, seems easily doable with a little apache rewrite
> magic and some programming. See my blog urls for one such example.
>
I believe Tom wants details removed from the URL, so future
implementation changes don't either a) break bookmarks because more
stuff is needed in the URL or b) don't break bookmarks but be limited to
existing sutff in the URL (ie. hacky work arounds). If that's the case,
your best best is to use some kind of key, like 16 random bytes
displayed in hex, that looks up the data.
IMHO, I don't see much gain to encoding the date into the url either.
This is not a great way of telling the user when something occurred. A
lookup is going to occur either way, so why not get all data at once
using a single method?
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-03T19:04:04+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Andrew Chernow<ac@esilo.com> wrote:
>>>>> The current URL seems to be
>>>>> http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest-view?id=3D2
>>>>> which is both opaque as can be and not looking like it's intended to
>>>>> be stable over the long term.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure why you would think that it's not stable.
>>>
>>> Because it's exposing three or four details of your implementation,
>>> which you might wish to change later.
>>>
>>>> I'm also not sure what you would think that it's not self-explanatory,
>>>> since it looks pretty self explanatory to me.
>>>
>>> It's impossible to know that this is commitfest 2009-07.
>>>
>>
>> commitfest.postgresql.org/2009/07 ?
>>
>> That, or any similar scheme, seems easily doable with a little apache
>> rewrite magic and some programming. See my blog urls for one such exampl=
e.
>
> I believe Tom wants details removed from the URL, so future implementation
> changes don't either a) break bookmarks because more stuff is needed in t=
he
> URL or b) don't break bookmarks but be limited to existing sutff in the U=
RL
> (ie. hacky work arounds). =A0If that's the case, your best best is to use=
some
> kind of key, like 16 random bytes displayed in hex, that looks up the dat=
a.
I *am* using some kind of key. Specifically, in integer derived from
a serial column. It's just as stable as 16 random bytes displayed in
hex, but a lot shorter and easier to remember, if you're the sort of
person who likes to remember URLs. :-)
> IMHO, I don't see much gain to encoding the date into the url either. This
> is not a great way of telling the user when something occurred. =A0A look=
up is
> going to occur either way, so why not get all data at once using a single
> method?
Sorry, I'm not following this part.
...Robet
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Dimitri Fontaine on
2009-07-03T19:08:53+00:00
Hi,
Le 3 juil. 09 =E0 20:44, Robert Haas a =E9crit :
> - Adding stable links with mnemonic names for the open, in progress,
> and most recently closed commitfests.
May I suggest something looking about like:
http://commitfest.postgresql.org/current
http://commitfest.postgresql.org/open
http://commitfest.postgresql.org/in-progress
http://commitfest.postgresql.org/previous
> With respect to the issue of the page URLs, I'm very unconvinced of
> the value of making a change.
Your software seems to be better than a wiki, but its potential users=20=20
are expressing needs and bikescheding. I think you'd better accept=20=20
both kind of changes as long as it's not making your life much harder=20=20
than you'd want. Frankly, what URL looks better:
http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest-view?id=3D2
http://commitfest.postgresql.org/2009/07
Oh, and while at it, I don't foresee that we would want the commitfest=20=
=20
of july 2009 to change its name but not the "semantic" URL pointing to=20=
=20
its management. Or if it's ever wanted, as has been said, have a look=20=20
at Apache Rewrite Rules system, it's made for supporting content being=20=
=20
moved. Something in the spirit of:
RedirectPermanent /2009/07 /2009/08
While at it, I imagine that within a given commit fest, a single patch=20=
=20
will have a stable shortname, or if it comes to change, we could=20=20
accept that the URL too change:
http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/patch-view?id=3D71
http://commitfest.postgresql.org/2009/07/Synch-Rep
http://commitfest.postgresql.org/current/Synch-Rep
Now, rather than following the names with apache setup, maybe you=20=20
could add something like some history tables tracking short name=20=20
changes (maybe some ON UPDATE trigger would do), so that referring to=20=20
an older name would send a HTTP 302 redirect to the new name URL?
I'd like your work to be useful for all of us and appreciated to its=20=20
real value, and those changes well seem like user interface=20=20
improvements rather than basic structure or behavior questioning.
Regards,
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Andrew Chernow on
2009-07-03T19:16:10+00:00
> I *am* using some kind of key. Specifically, in integer derived from
> a serial column. It's just as stable as 16 random bytes displayed in
> hex, but a lot shorter and easier to remember, if you're the sort of
> person who likes to remember URLs. :-)
>
Wasn't aware of exately what you were doing. It sounded like multiple
things were in the query-string. If its already a single key, than
there is no need to use a different key. And no, I don't like
remebering URLs ... thus all the fuss about breaking bookmarks ;-)
>>>> It's impossible to know that this is commitfest 2009-07.
>>>>
>>> commitfest.postgresql.org/2009/07 ?
>>>
>>> That, or any similar scheme, seems easily doable with a
>>> little apache rewrite magic and some programming. See my
>>> blog urls for one such example.
>> IMHO, I don't see much gain to encoding the date into the url either. This
>> is not a great way of telling the user when something occurred. A lookup is
>> going to occur either way, so why not get all data at once using a single
>> method?
>
> Sorry, I'm not following this part.
Using a URL to encode when something occurred was being offered as a
solution to know what commitfest it is. I'm not sure where your
confusion is?
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-03T19:22:42+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Dimitri Fontaine<dfontaine@hi-media.com> wr=
ote:
> Your software seems to be better than a wiki, but its potential users are
> expressing needs and bikescheding. I think you'd better accept both kind =
of
> changes as long as it's not making your life much harder than you'd want.
> Frankly, what URL looks better:
> =A0http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest-view?id=3D2
> =A0http://commitfest.postgresql.org/2009/07
We've definitely gotten to the "harder than I'd want" point at this point.
> Oh, and while at it, I don't foresee that we would want the commitfest of
> july 2009 to change its name but not the "semantic" URL pointing to its
> management. Or if it's ever wanted, as has been said, have a look at Apac=
he
> Rewrite Rules system, it's made for supporting content being moved.
> Something in the spirit of:
> =A0RedirectPermanent /2009/07 /2009/08
I humbly submit that it's insane to thing about editing httpd.conf
every time somebody renames an object. The point here is to *reduce*
the administrative burden of maintaining this thing.
> While at it, I imagine that within a given commit fest, a single patch wi=
ll
> have a stable shortname, or if it comes to change, we could accept that t=
he
> URL too change:
> =A0http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/patch-view?id=3D71
> =A0http://commitfest.postgresql.org/2009/07/Synch-Rep
> =A0http://commitfest.postgresql.org/current/Synch-Rep
>
> Now, rather than following the names with apache setup, maybe you could a=
dd
> something like some history tables tracking short name changes (maybe some
> ON UPDATE trigger would do), so that referring to an older name would sen=
d a
> HTTP 302 redirect to the new name URL?
So, the good thing about the current system is that the URL *doesn't*
change and you *don't* need complicated bookkeeping to remember every
URL you've ever assigned to the thing to get it. I am well aware that
it's possible to design a system that does this, but what benefit do
we get out of it? Making it possible to tell what a URL points to
without clicking on it, for those occasions when you're stranded on a
desert island with a URL and no Internet access?
There's a subtle and pernicious danger of the system you're proposing,
too. If we regularly change the URLs that refer to certain objects,
but compensate for that by remembering the whole history of URLs that
have ever referred to that object, then there will multiple URLs that
refer to the same object, of which all but one will contain WRONG
information about what that link points to. The
http://commitfest.postgresql.org/2009/07/Sync-Rep link, for example,
might imply to someone that the patch is in the 2009-07 commitfest,
but in fact it may well have been moved to the 2009-11, 2010-01, or
2010-03 commitfest, or we might have finally come to our senses and
realized that it ought to be called "streaming rep" and rename it.
It's true that the current URLs, without some sort of accompanying
text, do not tell you what they point to. But no information can
often be better than disinformation.
> I'd like your work to be useful for all of us and appreciated to its real
> value, and those changes well seem like user interface improvements rather
> than basic structure or behavior questioning.
I'd like that, too.
...Robert
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-03T19:26:49+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Andrew Chernow<ac@esilo.com> wrote:
>> I *am* using some kind of key. =A0Specifically, in integer derived from
>> a serial column. =A0It's just as stable as 16 random bytes displayed in
>> hex, but a lot shorter and easier to remember, if you're the sort of
>> person who likes to remember URLs. =A0:-)
>>
>
> Wasn't aware of exately what you were doing. =A0It sounded like multiple
> things were in the query-string. =A0If its already a single key, than the=
re is
> no need to use a different key. =A0And no, I don't like remebering URLs .=
..
> thus all the fuss about breaking bookmarks ;-)
Right. The current system has exactly ZERO chance of breaking any
bookmarks, and all of the proposed alternatives are much more likely
to do so.
>>>>> It's impossible to know that this is commitfest 2009-07.
>>>>>
>>>> commitfest.postgresql.org/2009/07 ?
>>>>
>>>> That, or any similar scheme, seems easily doable with a
>>>> little apache rewrite magic and some programming. See my
>>>> blog urls for one such example.
>>>
>>> IMHO, I don't see much gain to encoding the date into the url either.
>>> This
>>> is not a great way of telling the user when something occurred. =A0A lo=
okup
>>> is
>>> going to occur either way, so why not get all data at once using a sing=
le
>>> method?
>>
>> Sorry, I'm not following this part.
>
> Using a URL to encode when something occurred was being offered as a
> solution to know what commitfest it is. =A0I'm not sure where your confus=
ion
> is?
The suggestion was to encode the start date of the CommitFest in the
URL, instead of using a non-natural key.
...Robert
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Tom Lane on
2009-07-03T19:27:54+00:00
Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> writes:
> Backing up for a moment to ten thousand feet here, I posted a link to
> this web app on May 26th. I received several comments on it, all of
> them positive, including some constructive feedback from you which I
> took to heart. It is now July 1st, and I am trying very hard to get
> ready for the next CommitFest, which I have agreed to manage. So I
> need to determine whether there is some finite number of changes of
> manageable size that I can make to get this to a state where we can
> use it, or whether I should give up hope now and go back to the wiki.
I think it's probably fixable, if you've got some time to put into it
between now and the 15th. What's being griped about is user interface
details, and it's not surprising that you as the author didn't see
these things the same way a new user would. From what I've been able to
see, the underlying functionality is mostly there, but it needs some
usability/presentation tweaking.
> I accept the need for and am willing to make the following changes:
> - Changing the patch comment field from type text to type textarea and
> integrating it into the patch view page to provide context.
> - Adding a note to the effect that the message ID is optional.
> - Adding stable links with mnemonic names for the open, in progress,
> and most recently closed commitfests.
> With respect to the issue of the page URLs, I'm very unconvinced of
> the value of making a change.
Given your item 3 above, I think we can live with the URLs otherwise.
One other thing I was noticing is that the items for a particular patch
seem to be listed in reverse date order. Personally I find this strange
and would prefer newest-at-the-bottom
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-03T19:40:55+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> writes:
>> Backing up for a moment to ten thousand feet here, I posted a link to
>> this web app on May 26th. =A0I received several comments on it, all of
>> them positive, including some constructive feedback from you which I
>> took to heart. =A0It is now July 1st, and I am trying very hard to get
>> ready for the next CommitFest, which I have agreed to manage. =A0So I
>> need to determine whether there is some finite number of changes of
>> manageable size that I can make to get this to a state where we can
>> use it, or whether I should give up hope now and go back to the wiki.
>
> I think it's probably fixable, if you've got some time to put into it
> between now and the 15th. =A0What's being griped about is user interface
> details, and it's not surprising that you as the author didn't see
> these things the same way a new user would. =A0From what I've been able to
> see, the underlying functionality is mostly there, but it needs some
> usability/presentation tweaking.
Thanks, that is really good news. I agree that the presentation and
usability need some work and I'm trying to address those concerns as
expediently as I can. Part of my angst is that I am going to have
only sporadic Internet access for the next week, so what I can't get
done today (while my wife wonders why I am doing a second job on a
holiday for no money) probably isn't going to happen for a bit, and I
would like to get cut over so that Brendan doesn't have to keep
manually replicating changes between the systems. I will see if I can
make the changes below happen today.
>> I accept the need for and am willing to make the following changes:
>
>> - Changing the patch comment field from type text to type textarea and
>> integrating it into the patch view page to provide context.
>> - Adding a note to the effect that the message ID is optional.
>> - Adding stable links with mnemonic names for the open, in progress,
>> and most recently closed commitfests.
>
>> With respect to the issue of the page URLs, I'm very unconvinced of
>> the value of making a change.
>
> Given your item 3 above, I think we can live with the URLs otherwise.
/me feels like he has dodged a bullet.
> One other thing I was noticing is that the items for a particular patch
> seem to be listed in reverse date order. =A0Personally I find this strange
> and would prefer newest-at-the-bottom name, but now it is topic by sortorder, then topic by name, then patch
by ascending ID number (which works out to newest at the bottom). I
thought the other way would be OK, but after Brendan and I imported
the data we both said "that sucks", so it got changed last night
around midnight Eastern +/- an hour.
One of the things that I would like to add in the future is the
ability to assign a patch a shortname. This would be useful for
building command-line tools to interface with the system, e.g.
download the sepgsql patch. The idea would be that these names would
be stable, though of course it's hard to see how to guarantee that
100%. I am still trying to work out in my mind how best to set that
up, though, so it's probably not going to happen right away unless
someone else is prepared to do some of the legwork.
...Robert
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Kevin Grittner on
2009-07-03T19:49:21+00:00
Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it IS newest at the bottom, and I agree that that is how it
> should be.
It seems to be inconsistent. Probably because everything wound up
with the same date, the order is probably more-or-less random. What
are the chances that the date or timestamp of the corresponding wiki
modification could be put onto the patch and comment lines? (One
would hope that could be done with a script, rather than by hand....)
-Kevin
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Tom Lane on
2009-07-03T20:00:41+00:00
"Kevin Grittner" <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov> writes:
> Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think it IS newest at the bottom, and I agree that that is how it
>> should be.
> It seems to be inconsistent. Probably because everything wound up
> with the same date, the order is probably more-or-less random.
Yeah, I think that's what I'm seeing.
> What
> are the chances that the date or timestamp of the corresponding wiki
> modification could be put onto the patch and comment lines? (One
> would hope that could be done with a script, rather than by hand....)
Currently, it seems that most or all of the entries are links to
archived messages. Scraping the date from the underlying message
would be the best thing.
regards, tom lane
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Kevin Grittner on
2009-07-03T20:09:40+00:00
Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Currently, it seems that most or all of the entries are links to
> archived messages. Scraping the date from the underlying message
> would be the best thing.
Just for purposes of conversion, or as a long-term behavior?
-Kevin
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Tom Lane on
2009-07-03T20:34:56+00:00
"Kevin Grittner" <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov> writes:
> Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>> Currently, it seems that most or all of the entries are links to
>> archived messages. Scraping the date from the underlying message
>> would be the best thing.
> Just for purposes of conversion, or as a long-term behavior?
Well, right at the moment I was just thinking of the conversion problem,
but it wouldn't be a horrible idea to make it a permanent behavior for
entries that include a message reference.
regards, tom lane
Re: commitfest.postgresql.org by Peter Eisentraut on
2009-07-03T20:43:44+00:00
On Friday 03 July 2009 07:57:35 Robert Haas wrote:
> We're still hacking on a few other details of the formatting and
> interface, but you might want to cruise over and have a look.
One thing that I noticed it that it takes too many clicks in general to make a
set of changes. When I look at a patch, why not have the controls to add a
comment and make changes right there, instead of on another page? For
instance, the functionality of
action/patch-view?id=69
action/patch-comment-form?patch=69
action/patch-form?id=69
action/patch-bump?id=69
could all be on the same page.
And please make "Delete Patch" into a button instead of a link.
Re: commitfest.postgresql.org by Tom Lane on
2009-07-03T20:54:36+00:00
Peter Eisentraut <peter-e@gmx.net> writes:
> And please make "Delete Patch" into a button instead of a link.
Only if there's some kind of confirmation ...
regards, tom lane
Re: commitfest.postgresql.org by Joshua D. Drake on
2009-07-03T21:49:36+00:00
On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 16:54 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> Peter Eisentraut <peter-e@gmx.net> writes:
> > And please make "Delete Patch" into a button instead of a link.
>
> Only if there's some kind of confirmation ...
Should we actually delete patches? I get removing them from the list but
it seems there could be benefit from keeping patches that are not
"quite" there or perhaps present an idea that is ahead of its time (or
half baked but interesting in genera?).
+1 on the confirmation regardless.
Joshua D. Drake
>
> regards, tom lane
>
Re: commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-03T21:57:51+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Joshua D. Drake<jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 16:54 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
>> Peter Eisentraut <peter-e@gmx.net> writes:
>> > And please make "Delete Patch" into a button instead of a link.
>>
>> Only if there's some kind of confirmation ...
>
> Should we actually delete patches? I get removing them from the list but
> it seems there could be benefit from keeping patches that are not
> "quite" there or perhaps present an idea that is ahead of its time (or
> half baked but interesting in genera?).
>
> +1 on the confirmation regardless.
There is a confirmation right now, plus it doesn't work at all unless
you delete all the comments first, which you can't do either unless
you are an administrator or the only person who has ever commented on
the patch.
Really, deleting patches should be quite rare and only needed in cases
where the patch should not have been added in the first place.
I guess I'm not really seeing why that particular thing should be a
button rather than a link. It would mess up the formatting for no
obvious benefit.
...Robert
Re: commitfest.postgresql.org by Joshua D. Drake on
2009-07-03T22:19:47+00:00
On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 17:57 -0400, Robert Haas wrote:
> I guess I'm not really seeing why that particular thing should be a
> button rather than a link. It would mess up the formatting for no
> obvious benefit.
>
Not arguing one way or the other, a button says, "I am about to perform
X". A link *always* says, "I am about to go to a new web page".
Joshua D. Drake
> ...Robert
>
Re: commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-03T22:51:08+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Joshua D. Drake<jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 17:57 -0400, Robert Haas wrote:
>
>> I guess I'm not really seeing why that particular thing should be a
>> button rather than a link. =A0It would mess up the formatting for no
>> obvious benefit.
>>
>
> Not arguing one way or the other, a button says, "I am about to perform
> X". A link *always* says, "I am about to go to a new web page".
Hmm, there is some truth to what you say. I guess the way I think
about it, a button says "I am about to submit this form" and a link
says "I am about to do something other than submit a form". But it's
certainly an arguable point.
...Robert
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-04T03:10:27+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Robert Haas<robertmhaas@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I accept the need for and am willing to make the following changes:
>>
>>> - Changing the patch comment field from type text to type textarea and
>>> integrating it into the patch view page to provide context.
>>> - Adding a note to the effect that the message ID is optional.
>>> - Adding stable links with mnemonic names for the open, in progress,
>>> and most recently closed commitfests.
Done.
Done.
Done.
You guys are harder to please than my boss. He doesn't quite know for
sure which things are possible. :-)
...Robert
Re: commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-04T03:11:29+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Peter Eisentraut<peter-e@gmx.net> wrote:
> On Friday 03 July 2009 07:57:35 Robert Haas wrote:
>> We're still hacking on a few other details of the formatting and
>> interface, but you might want to cruise over and have a look.
>
> One thing that I noticed it that it takes too many clicks in general to m=
ake a
> set of changes. =A0When I look at a patch, why not have the controls to a=
dd a
> comment and make changes right there, instead of on another page? =A0For
> instance, the functionality of
>
> action/patch-view?id=3D69
> action/patch-comment-form?patch=3D69
> action/patch-form?id=3D69
> action/patch-bump?id=3D69
>
> could all be on the same page.
Well, I've added the comment form to that page, by request, but I
don't see how you could fit the rest on there in any sort of sane way.
But I'm accepting patches...
...Robert
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-04T03:14:35+00:00
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> "Kevin Grittner" <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov> writes:
>> Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I think it IS newest at the bottom, and I agree that that is how it
>>> should be.
>
>> It seems to be inconsistent. =A0Probably because everything wound up
>> with the same date, the order is probably more-or-less random.
>
> Yeah, I think that's what I'm seeing.
I think what you guys must be seeing is that the topics are not in
quite the same order. As far as I can tell, the ordering of patches
within topics is absolutely identical. If you see a counterexample,
please point it out. If you want to fix the order of the topics,
click on the "CommitFest Topics" link in the upper lefthand corner of
the page and frobnicate the sort order.
>> What
>> are the chances that the date or timestamp of the corresponding wiki
>> modification could be put onto the patch and comment lines? =A0(One
>> would hope that could be done with a script, rather than by hand....)
>
> Currently, it seems that most or all of the entries are links to
> archived messages. =A0Scraping the date from the underlying message
> would be the best thing.
Brendan, is this something that you can work on? Or does anyone else
have some time to put into it? And do we have to fix this before we
can declare the new system live, or can we catch up after the fact?
Because replicating changes from the old system to the new is a bit of
a pain in the neck.
...Robert
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Brendan Jurd on
2009-07-04T03:43:04+00:00
2009/7/4 Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>:
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>> "Kevin Grittner" <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov> writes:
>>> What
>>> are the chances that the date or timestamp of the corresponding wiki
>>> modification could be put onto the patch and comment lines? =A0(One
>>> would hope that could be done with a script, rather than by hand....)
>>
>> Currently, it seems that most or all of the entries are links to
>> archived messages. =A0Scraping the date from the underlying message
>> would be the best thing.
>
> Brendan, is this something that you can work on?
I will take a stab at it. I think Tom's suggestion of harvesting the
time of the mail message from the archives could do the job.
Cheers,
BJ
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Tom Lane on
2009-07-04T03:57:02+00:00
Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> writes:
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>> "Kevin Grittner" <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov> writes:
>>> It seems to be inconsistent.
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Brendan Jurd on
2009-07-04T04:50:25+00:00
2009/7/4 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>:
> No, what we're complaining about is the ordering of comments for a
> single patch.
Now moot, since I've successfully pulled the dates for all comments
with a message-id from the archives, and updated the database
accordingly.
Cheers,
BJ
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Robert Haas on
2009-07-04T11:18:09+00:00
On Jul 3, 2009, at 11:56 PM, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> writes:
>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tom Lane<tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
>>> "Kevin Grittner" <Kevin.Grittner@wicourts.gov> writes:
>>>> It seems to be inconsistent. Probably because everything wound up
>>>> with the same date, the order is probably more-or-less random.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I think that's what I'm seeing.
>
>> I think what you guys must be seeing is that the topics are not in
>> quite the same order. As far as I can tell, the ordering of patches
>> within topics is absolutely identical.
>
> No, what we're complaining about is the ordering of comments for a
> single patch. If you look at
> http://commitfest.postgresql.org/action/commitfest-view?id=2
> in some cases there are Comments before the Patch itself, and in
> some cases after, but more often than not the original Patch is
> at the bottom.
Oh, duh. I totally missed that.
...Robert
Re: pgsql-www - commitfest.postgresql.org by Brendan Jurd on
2009-07-05T06:55:18+00:00
2009/7/3 Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>:
> The application stamps comments with the
> community login of the person who left them, but the import stamped
> them with names instead. =A0This is actually of some significance, since
> the app will allow you to edit your own comments but not those of
> other people. =A0We could probably fix this if someone can give us
> access to (or a dump of) the realname to username mappings from the
> community login DB.
Nobody came forward with a mapping of real names to community logins,
so I went ahead and did this the dumb, slow way (eyeballing the wiki
history and manually creating a mapping for the names we have in the
commitfest app so far).
I've updated the patch comment creator field with the login names I
was able to map, but there are a few contributors who either don't
have a community login, or haven't used the wiki. In those cases I
left the name as-is.
You should now be able to edit comments that you created. If you
think you should be able to edit a comment, but you can't because the
login name is wrong, let me know and I'll fix it up.
Cheers,
BJ